The following student report was submitted by Ambassador League Agent Kelcey W. during the 2009-2010 League.
Mission: Interview with Ed Rivet
Biographical Sketch:
Ed Rivet is a lobbyist for Right to Life Michigan and has worked for them for twenty-two years. He is a dedicated Christian and he and his wife Michelle homeschool their six children. Mr. Rivet enjoys music and things outdoors but also spends a lot of time with his kids. During past summers he's taken time to be a mock lobbyist for the kids at SSI. He also sings tenor in HSMA's chancel choir. After choir practice he took the time to let me interview him, amidst several orchestra and band rehearsals on all sides.
Kelcey: OK, so is it all right if I ask how old you are?
Mr. Rivet: No, it's not!
Kelcey: No? Well, OK . . . .
Mr. Rivet: (Laughs) Yeah it is, it's fine. I'm 46.
Kelcey: OK. How many years have you worked at Right to Life?
Mr. Rivet: 22.
Kelcey: Wow. When did you become a Christian?
Mr. Rivet: Uh, well, that depends. (Laughs). I was baptized as a baby, so, but when did I make a personal [decision]? Well, I always believed in God, I always believed in Jesus, and when I was 18, I really made a commitment that the Lord was going to be the Lord of my life, and not just Somebody I kinda believed in. He was going to be in charge. That was a big change from just believing to actually submitting myself.
Kelcey: How much college have you had?
Mr. Rivet: I have a master's degree in public administration, along with my bachelor's.
Kelcey: And how many kids do you have?
Mr. Rivet:Six.
Kelcey: Six! OK, I didn't know that. What are some things you enjoy doing in your off time?
Mr. Rivet: Do I have off time? (Laughs). Well, most of the things I do involve my children and my life at home. Life has been busy there and that. I enjoy music, obviously. I like to play my guitar and sing, when I get the chance. I love certain outdoor things that are really enjoyable. I don't watch television, that's for sure. Unless I'll watch, like a good sporting event like a big football game or something. I like watching sports, but I'm always doing stuff. So just lots of different things.
Kelcey: So you work at Right to Life. What motivated you to take this job?
Mr. Rivet: Well, I tend to think more that I was recruited by God than that I wanted to do this. I was working at the Capitol as a legislative aide; I was not particularly happy working for the particular legislator I was with, because he had many personal problems, so I was looking for an opportunity to do something else in my career. And the lobbying position came, so I just said to God, “If you want me to do this, You'll have to pave the way and make it happen.” And I didn't expect to do it for twenty-plus years. So obviously it was His plan and not necessarily mine. I just discovered I had a deep passion for the issue without being as aware of it until I interviewed and got the job. And I just know God has me in this place for His purposes.
Kelcey: Is there any training that is important to become a lobbyist?
Mr. Rivet: Well, you gotta like the political process. The more you know about it before you go into it, obviously. A lot of lobbyists come from legislative staff positions like I did, or they have a background in a particular field, and that opens up the opportunity for them to move into advocacy and the political process. So you may have someone who was effective in a field like accounting or some profession like that and they just decide to start advocating on behalf of their interests or whatever. Most people come into it with a background in law or politics and they want to affect laws.
Kelcey: Can you go through a typical day in the life of a lobbyist?
Mr. Rivet: (Laughs.) Well, that depends on what type of lobbyist. I'm a single-interest lobbyist, so all of my work revolves around the issues that Right to Life is concerned with. And it's a grassroots organization, so it involves working with our groups that we have organized around the state and pro-life people in general, people from churches, whatever it might be. If you were interviewing a multi-client lobbyist – and I can recommend a couple who are good Christians if you'd like to do that as a contrast – um, they represent a lot of different interests, a lot of different clients, so they do different kinds of work. They still have to work with who their clients are, and their clients might be a grassroots organization or a profession or a type of organization or interest group, so the way that they have to manage their different clients and involve their time with each of them is divided up in different ways. So for me, you know, when the legislature is in session, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I usually end up at the Capitol or in one of the legislator's offices, or for a meeting almost every day, trying to talk to somebody, trying to get something going, trying to put out a fire of some sort on the legislative front. But at the same time, I may deal with communicating with our local groups. And then because we're an organization that deals with a lot of people, and they call us with ideas or concerns or questions, I may get a call from, as I did last week. A woman who was concerned that her aunt was essentially being euthanised in a nursing home in Grand Rapids, that they weren't feeding her and providing hydration appropriately. And her concern was that there were some extended and other family members that kinda wanted to see Aunt Tilly bumped off. So I had to give her advice on what the laws are, with regard to that. Couple weeks before that I had a young man contact us whose girlfriend had an abortion and he didn't want her to, and now she was having some complications. What were the laws, what were the rights, did he have any rights, which of course, he didn't. He doesn't. Men don't have any rights. So those kind of calls can come in randomly on a given day and they get sent to me because they have legal or technical elements to them. So you know, I don't have typical days.
Kelcey: Now, how many lobbyists does Right to Life Michigan have?
Mr. Rivet: Well, currently we have just myself full time, and then I have a part-time associate. We've had two of us full-time lobbyists, in the past, over the last decade or so, but times got a little tough. All of our money comes from donations. So when my last full-time associate left, I had someone who was an intern, and still in graduate school. She's with me right now, part-time. So it's either been just me, or me part time, and for quite a while we've been able to have two of us.
Kelcey: What is the greatest reward to your job?
Mr. Rivet: Ah, I don't think I'm going to see most of the rewards of my job until I'm dead. (chuckles.) I mean, we do know that the policies we advocate and the work that we do does reduce abortions. So if I see as we know in Michigan that abortions have gone down about 50 % since when I started in 1988, because we ended Medicaid-funded abortions, because we require parental consent for a minor to get an abortion. So we know that, well, “Gee, I either have to go to a judge or I have to go tell my parents,” and that will sometimes create enough of a disincentive where they decide, “I really don't want to have this abortion.” Or they do tell their parents, and the parents help them through, so the girls don't get the abortions. So we do know as we look at the numbers from year to year that the policies have saved babies from being aborted. Or when I get some of these calls –in a few instances over the years I've had a call regarding a euthanasia case. And because they were able to get the right advice from me, they could go back and change the course of the treatment and the patient was given a different line of care and then didn't die. So I guess, in a few cases, I'd say, well, I played apart in changing that outcome. I didn't really save a life, maybe I did, but I'll just know later, when I get to heaven.
The other “rewards” are people call you names in the press a lot, “You're a right-wing religious zealot, imposing your values on everybody else and getting in the way of science!” because we don't believe in embryo stem cell research and “people suffer with terrible diseases instead of being freed by Dr. Kevorkian” you know, and assisted suicide and things like that, those are the “rewards” you get for standing up.
Kelcey: So those are some of the challenges?
Mr. Rivet: Yeah, those are the negative parts, and of course, we're dealing in a culture that resists these truths so you're constantly bucking against the tide. Swimming upstream, being labeled in the media, being misquoted, being attacked, um, yeah, that's the fun part! (Laughs).
Kelcey: Now what role does your faith play in your profession?
Mr. Rivet: Well, for a lot of lobbyists, in all the different areas that they might work, I mean, if I'm a lobbyist for Farm Bureau or something, you can care a lot about farming issues and all that, but your faith doesn't, you know, you're not going in there fighting spiritual warfare. Whereas with the pro-life issue it is. Ah, and I've hired lot of assistants, and they can only stand to work with me for a couple of years, and then I have to get another one. So . . . no, there are a lot of good reasons I've lost some of my previous staff to great opportunities. But it's spiritual warfare, there's no question about that. So I usually interview them, and technically when you interview people for a position that's not like for a church or something, you're not supposed to ask about their religion, but the fact of the matter is one, can you be patient? Because this legislative process can take a long time. It took us eight years to get the ban on assisted suicide through the legislature. So if you're looking for quick results, this is not the job to get into And if you're not prepared for the spiritual warfare, you're not going to last. I've hired some people whose spirituality, well, they've claimed to have a faith, and they've claimed to know, and that God is part of their life and everything, but it wasn't long after they started working for me that I knew it wasn't a central place in their day-to-day life, their spirituality. They never last. A year, year and a half at the most, sometimes, months. Because the Devil doesn't want us doing this. And if you don't have that core, you will not work in this for very long. I mean, it's too brutal. You start having people calling you names in the press and watching legislators who say they're pro-life and then they flip, right when the big vote's gonna happen. They're all of a sudden betraying you, literally, I mean, it kinda feels like a Judas thing. That's a spiritual warfare. I've seen some amazing spiritual things. I've seen the hand of God work, though, too, in some of these legislative battles, and that's really cool. It's really cool to see that.
Kelcey: What is the best thing that has happened to you because of this job?
Mr. Rivet: What is the best thing that has happened to me? Uh . . . that's a darn good question. I think the best thing that's happened is I have been able to work with the very best people in the world. Pro-life people are the most selfless, giving people. They are the kind of people that make the world a good place, and they want to change the world for a good place, and they want to serve the Lord in what they do, and so, even though we lose a lot of battles, and we get picked on, and whatever else, the people that are part of our local Right to Life groups are just the best in the world. And, you know, networking with other groups, I mean, this SSI, this is CTV, this is James Muffet and Jeff Visscher and people like that, well those are the best people in the world to partner with and do projects and work on a cause together. So, that's the best part of the job, the people and the friendships and the relationships you get to make over the years.
Kelcey: Can you talk a little bit about when lobbying crosses the line?
Mr. Rivet: Crosses which lines?
Kelcey: Like, into corruption a little bit; or do you think that happens?
Mr. Rivet: Oh yeah, there's some lobbying that happens in the political process that you know is undo influence and distorts our democracy. I suppose it doesn't always just, monetary, you know when lobbyists can make lots of big contributions to the legislator's campaign funds. That's clearly the easiest place that it can be influential. I think you can see corruption, though to the extent that very powerful groups including even like Right to Life-
(Door opens and Pastor Paul Clark walks in)
Pastor Clark: Just stick something in here . . .
Mr. Rivet: (Teasing tone) You know you get these Lutheran pastor guys that are part of Lutherans for Life and you can't trust them, I mean they'll go and try to guilt these legislators into voting for them and threaten them with going somewhere south of-
Pastor Clark: Never listen to any man with a beard.
Mr. Rivet: (Laughs). Uh, yeah, I think that's exactly how Jesus, you know was very clean-shaven. (laughs). You'll have to put a footnote in there: “This is when Pastor Paul came in,” because he is the head of Lutherans for Life; he's their liaison for Michigan. Um, so, I suppose, even for example you could take unions, or an interest group like Right to Life or the NRA or whatever, but usually, when you're advocating for a cause, it's OK that you're a special interest group. Because, a special interest group is the equivalent of citizens who've organized themselves. So I don't care if you're for the good guys of for the bad guys, you know. I guess Planned Parenthood, you know if they have a bunch of individuals who are volunteers for Planned Parenthood or whatever and they're advocating, yes they're special interest, but the Constitution says we have the right to associate and redress the government for our grievances, so I don't consider special interest corrupting our process. When you start using money or other forms of political influence, to distort legitimate debate, legitimate political action, then that's a problem. It can happen. It does. I've seen it. (chuckles.)
Kelcey: Do you have any advice for someone wanting to go into politics, but specifically lobbying?
Mr. Rivet: Don't! No, that's not true. I think probably the very best thing is to get some experience working in the legislature, whether you just do an internship, if you can get a position as a legislative staffer, for a while, because it's really good to see the inside process before you go on the outside. And it's really good to build relationships. Especially with staff. Because we have term limits now, so legislators come and go two, four, six years – people are turning over and that sort of thing so long term relationships with legislators is a thing of the past. It used to be really, really important. You know, you'd have legislators who are going to be there twenty, twenty-five years. So before term limits took place, I was building relationships with legislators who'd been there a long time, and we had a good rapport, we knew each other well. So building relationships with the legislators was really important. Now that they turn over, having relationships with the staff people and other lobbyists is probably as important as the relationships you have with the legislators, so being able to work as a staffer for a while would be a good way of networking and leaning the inside process, so then when you're on the outside, lobbying to affect that process, you really understand how it works. So, that'd be the best thing I would suggest. Take a couple of years to actually work inside the legislature if you could get a staff position.
Kelcey: Well, thank you so much for you time and letting me interview you.
Mr. Rivet: You want to make sure you got it all, including the violins and Pastor Paul and everything? (Laughs.)
Kelcey: Yep.
